Episode 38

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Published on:

20th Feb 2024

Embracing 'Discomfort' in Work with Men - Dr Nate Eisenstadt

What is 'discomfort', and how can we engage effectively with men when they display it in conversations about masculinity, gender equality and violence? How can connecting with discomfort help to change harmful attitudes and behaviours? What are the risks and challenges in embracing discomfort, and how can they be dealt with? These issues are at the core of our discussion with Dr Nate Eisenstadt, drawing on his extensive experience of facilitating and researching bystander intervention and domestic violence perpetrator programmes in the UK.

We also explore the training room as a microcosm of wider society, and how discomfort and fear are often weaponised by public figures to promote damaging, polarising responses to complex real-world problems. Drawing on his earlier research on contemporary anarchist practices, Nate reflects on the challenges and potential of community-based transformative (as opposed to punitive) approaches to ending gender-based violence.

Nate is a Senior Research Associate at the University of Bristol in the UK, in their Medical School’s Domestic Violence and Health Group, and the Co-Director of Kindling Interventions, which delivers bystander leadership programmes for violence prevention, equality and diversity.

We cover the following topics:

  • The 'bystander leadership' training that Nate is delivering (01:31-05:16)
  • Why he and Dr Rachel Fenton set up Kindling Interventions (05:16-09:03)
  • Advantages and challenges with the bystander intervention approach (09:03-16:27)
  • Different ways in which 'discomfort' can surface in this work (16:27-22:39)
  • How to respond to discomfort when engaging with men and boys (22:39-30:57)
  • The role of skilled facilitation (30:57-33:39)
  • Facilitators’ own experiences of discomfort (33:39-37:24)
  • How discomfort links to the backlash against feminism in wider society (37:24-42:46)
  • Vital ingredients for impactful work with men who've perpetrated abuse (42:46-48:55)
  • How this research links with Nate’s work on anarchist and anti-oppressive organising (48:55-52:06)
  • Key tenets of anarchism and links with community accountability (52:06-53:58)
  • Conclusion (53:58-59:54): Overlaps with Jens van Tricht's episode; the value of uncomfortable conversations; shifts in work with men who've used violence; the resonance of Nate's work with wider political polarisation; and anarchism and mutual aid.

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About the Podcast

Now and Men
Changing Masculinities, Challenging Norms
What role can men play in achieving gender equality?
Why is feminism good for men?
How are rigid ideas about masculinity holding back our lives—and how are people around the world challenging them?

These are the questions at the heart of Now and Men, a podcast hosted by social researchers Dr Stephen Burrell (Lecturer at the University of Melbourne, Australia) and Sandy Ruxton (Independent Researcher and Honorary Fellow at Durham University, UK).

We explore masculinity and change in the lives of men and boys today, diving into issues such as gender-based violence, fatherhood, men’s health, politics and the environment. Grounded in feminist thinking, our conversations connect big ideas to everyday experiences—showing how gender shapes all of us, and how men can be part of building a more equal world.

At a time when regressive versions of masculinity are resurging—amplified by political leaders, online influencers, even podcasters—we spotlight the people pushing back. Each episode features inspiring voices working to engage men and boys in positive, transformative ways and imagining feminist futures.

New episodes drop every month. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts, and join us in exploring what healthy, caring, equitable paths forward can look like for men. Questions or comments? We’d love to hear from you at nowandmen@gmail.com.

About your hosts

Stephen Burrell

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I am a Lecturer in Criminology at the University of Melbourne. I'm originally from the UK, and moved to Australia at the beginning of 2024. My research is about men, masculinities, and violence. I am particularly interested in the prevention of men's violence - especially violence against women, and violence against the environment - and promoting care as an alternative. I'm a big fan of feminism, drinking tea, connecting with nature, eating vegan snacks, and listening to heavy metal.

Sandy Ruxton

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Honorary Research Fellow in the Department of Sociology at Durham University (UK). Independent researcher, expert on men and masculinities. Previous policy work on human rights, children and families, poverty and social exclusion, and asylum and migration. Programme experience with boys and young men in schools, community, and prisons. Steering Committee member, MenEngage Europe. Volunteer for OX4 Food Crew. Chess-player, bike-rider, tree-hugger. Great grandfather edited Boy's Own Paper, but was sacked.