Episode 38

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Published on:

20th Feb 2024

Embracing 'Discomfort' in Work with Men - Dr Nate Eisenstadt

What is 'discomfort', and how can we engage effectively with men when they display it in conversations about masculinity, gender equality and violence? How can connecting with discomfort help to change harmful attitudes and behaviours? What are the risks and challenges in embracing discomfort, and how can they be dealt with? These issues are at the core of our discussion with Dr Nate Eisenstadt, drawing on his extensive experience of facilitating and researching bystander intervention and domestic violence perpetrator programmes in the UK.

We also explore the training room as a microcosm of wider society, and how discomfort and fear are often weaponised by public figures to promote damaging, polarising responses to complex real-world problems. Drawing on his earlier research on contemporary anarchist practices, Nate reflects on the challenges and potential of community-based transformative (as opposed to punitive) approaches to ending gender-based violence.

Nate is a Senior Research Associate at the University of Bristol in the UK, in their Medical School’s Domestic Violence and Health Group, and the Co-Director of Kindling Interventions, which delivers bystander leadership programmes for violence prevention, equality and diversity.

We cover the following topics:

  • The 'bystander leadership' training that Nate is delivering (01:31-05:16)
  • Why he and Dr Rachel Fenton set up Kindling Interventions (05:16-09:03)
  • Advantages and challenges with the bystander intervention approach (09:03-16:27)
  • Different ways in which 'discomfort' can surface in this work (16:27-22:39)
  • How to respond to discomfort when engaging with men and boys (22:39-30:57)
  • The role of skilled facilitation (30:57-33:39)
  • Facilitators’ own experiences of discomfort (33:39-37:24)
  • How discomfort links to the backlash against feminism in wider society (37:24-42:46)
  • Vital ingredients for impactful work with men who've perpetrated abuse (42:46-48:55)
  • How this research links with Nate’s work on anarchist and anti-oppressive organising (48:55-52:06)
  • Key tenets of anarchism and links with community accountability (52:06-53:58)
  • Conclusion (53:58-59:54): Overlaps with Jens van Tricht's episode; the value of uncomfortable conversations; shifts in work with men who've used violence; the resonance of Nate's work with wider political polarisation; and anarchism and mutual aid.

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About the Podcast

Now and Men
Current conversations about men's lives
What's it like to be a man in the 21st century? How are feminist issues relevant to men and boys? How can we engage in productive conversations about gender equality? These questions are being discussed more than ever.

Our monthly podcast delves into these issues with experts such as practitioners, activists and academics. In each episode, you’ll hear in-depth conversations about a wide-range of topics connected to masculinity and the lives of men and boys, such as preventing gender-based violence, promoting active fatherhood, and supporting men's health.

The podcast is hosted by two social science researchers, based on the opposite sides of the world: Sandy Ruxton from Durham University's Centre for Research into Violence and Abuse (UK) and Dr Stephen Burrell from the University of Melbourne (Australia). If you would like to give us your feedback, suggest a guest, or have a question you'd like us to discuss, get in touch at nowandmen@gmail.com. And if you like what we do, please share us with your friends, and leave a review on Apple podcasts!

About your hosts

Stephen Burrell

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I am a Lecturer in Criminology at the University of Melbourne, Australia, where I moved from the UK at the beginning of 2024. My research is about men, masculinities and violence. I am particularly interested in the prevention of men's violence against women, building gender equality, addressing environmental harm, and promoting an ethic of care among men and boys. In my spare time I'm a big fan of drinking tea, being in nature, eating vegan ice cream, and listening to heavy metal music. I'm also a trustee for White Ribbon UK.

Sandy Ruxton

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Honorary Research Fellow in the Department of Sociology at Durham University (UK). Independent researcher, expert on men and masculinities. Previous policy work on human rights, children and families, poverty and social exclusion, and asylum and migration. Programme experience with boys and young men in schools, community, and prisons. Steering Committee member, MenEngage Europe. Volunteer for OX4 Food Crew. Chess-player, bike-rider, tree-hugger. Great grandfather edited Boy's Own Paper, but was sacked.