Episode 34

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Published on:

4th Oct 2023

Angela Saini - Patriarchy and the Roots of Gendered Oppression

What is 'patriarchy' and where do its origins lie? How did it become embedded in societies from prehistory to the present? What part do we all play in maintaining patriarchal structures, and can they be dismantled? These are some of the pressing questions we discuss in this episode with Angela Saini, author of a fascinating new book 'The Patriarchs: How Men Came to Rule' (Harper Collins): https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/the-patriarchs-how-men-came-to-rule-angela-saini?variant=39997855268942

Angela is an award-winning British journalist, currently based in New York. She teaches science writing at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, presents radio and television programmes, and has written for National Geographic, the Financial Times, and Wired. In 2022 she was a Logan Nonfiction Program fellow, and a fellow of the Humboldt Residency Programme in Berlin. 'The Patriarchs' follows on from her earlier books, the critically acclaimed 'Superior: The Return of Race Science' and 'Inferior: How Science Got Women Wrong'.

We cover the following topics in this episode:

  • Defining 'patriarchy' (01:01-02:32)
  • 'The Patriarchs' as a title (02:32-03:51)
  • 'Patriarchy' as a system (03:51-05:21)
  • Motivations for writing the book (05:21-06:46)
  • Animals and 'natural' male domination (06:46-10:32)
  • Angela's journey exploring gender diversity in how people live (10:32-12:01)
  • Matrilineal societies and why they are important (12:01-15:07)
  • European colonialism and the imposition of patriarchal norms (15:07-16:08)
  • The 1848 Seneca Falls Women's Rights Convention and pre-existing Native American societies (16:08-20:14)
  • Weighing archaeological, anthropological and ancient DNA evidence – the work of Marija Gimbutas (20:14-27:50)
  • Colonial and patriarchal justifications for inequality, e.g. in Athens (27:50-33:43)
  • Rise of the first states: organising around birth rates and defence (33:43-38:37)
  • Putin's Russia as a model of the patriarchal state (38:37-40:54)
  • Complexities of women and men supporting or resisting patriarchy (40:54-42:26)
  • Shifting and reframing ‘patriarchies’ over time, e.g. Afghanistan (42:26-45:37)
  • Hanging onto a positive vision of a radically different world, e.g. Iran (45:37-47:47)
  • Explaining social behaviour and social change beyond biology (47:47-50:01)
  • Angela's current and future projects (50:01-52:55)
  • Conclusion (52:55-58:43)

References:

Reviews of 'The Patriarchs':

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About the Podcast

Now and Men
Changing Masculinities, Challenging Norms
What role can men play in achieving gender equality?
Why is feminism good for men?
How are rigid ideas about masculinity holding back our lives—and how are people around the world challenging them?

These are the questions at the heart of Now and Men, a podcast hosted by social researchers Dr Stephen Burrell (Lecturer at the University of Melbourne, Australia) and Sandy Ruxton (Independent Researcher and Honorary Fellow at Durham University, UK).

We explore masculinity and change in the lives of men and boys today, diving into issues such as gender-based violence, fatherhood, men’s health, politics and the environment. Grounded in feminist thinking, our conversations connect big ideas to everyday experiences—showing how gender shapes all of us, and how men can be part of building a more equal world.

At a time when regressive versions of masculinity are resurging—amplified by political leaders, online influencers, even podcasters—we spotlight the people pushing back. Each episode features inspiring voices working to engage men and boys in positive, transformative ways and imagining feminist futures.

New episodes drop every month. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts, and join us in exploring what healthy, caring, equitable paths forward can look like for men. Questions or comments? We’d love to hear from you at nowandmen@gmail.com.

About your hosts

Stephen Burrell

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I am a Lecturer in Criminology at the University of Melbourne. I'm originally from the UK, and moved to Australia at the beginning of 2024. My research is about men, masculinities, and violence. I am particularly interested in the prevention of men's violence - especially violence against women, and violence against the environment - and promoting care as an alternative. I'm a big fan of feminism, drinking tea, connecting with nature, eating vegan snacks, and listening to heavy metal.

Sandy Ruxton

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Honorary Research Fellow in the Department of Sociology at Durham University (UK). Independent researcher, expert on men and masculinities. Previous policy work on human rights, children and families, poverty and social exclusion, and asylum and migration. Programme experience with boys and young men in schools, community, and prisons. Steering Committee member, MenEngage Europe. Volunteer for OX4 Food Crew. Chess-player, bike-rider, tree-hugger. Great grandfather edited Boy's Own Paper, but was sacked.