Episode 34

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Published on:

4th Oct 2023

Angela Saini - Patriarchy and the Roots of Gendered Oppression

What is 'patriarchy' and where do its origins lie? How did it become embedded in societies from prehistory to the present? What part do we all play in maintaining patriarchal structures, and can they be dismantled? These are some of the pressing questions we discuss in this episode with Angela Saini, author of a fascinating new book 'The Patriarchs: How Men Came to Rule' (Harper Collins): https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/the-patriarchs-how-men-came-to-rule-angela-saini?variant=39997855268942

Angela is an award-winning British journalist, currently based in New York. She teaches science writing at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, presents radio and television programmes, and has written for National Geographic, the Financial Times, and Wired. In 2022 she was a Logan Nonfiction Program fellow, and a fellow of the Humboldt Residency Programme in Berlin. 'The Patriarchs' follows on from her earlier books, the critically acclaimed 'Superior: The Return of Race Science' and 'Inferior: How Science Got Women Wrong'.

We cover the following topics in this episode:

  • Defining 'patriarchy' (01:01-02:32)
  • 'The Patriarchs' as a title (02:32-03:51)
  • 'Patriarchy' as a system (03:51-05:21)
  • Motivations for writing the book (05:21-06:46)
  • Animals and 'natural' male domination (06:46-10:32)
  • Angela's journey exploring gender diversity in how people live (10:32-12:01)
  • Matrilineal societies and why they are important (12:01-15:07)
  • European colonialism and the imposition of patriarchal norms (15:07-16:08)
  • The 1848 Seneca Falls Women's Rights Convention and pre-existing Native American societies (16:08-20:14)
  • Weighing archaeological, anthropological and ancient DNA evidence – the work of Marija Gimbutas (20:14-27:50)
  • Colonial and patriarchal justifications for inequality, e.g. in Athens (27:50-33:43)
  • Rise of the first states: organising around birth rates and defence (33:43-38:37)
  • Putin's Russia as a model of the patriarchal state (38:37-40:54)
  • Complexities of women and men supporting or resisting patriarchy (40:54-42:26)
  • Shifting and reframing ‘patriarchies’ over time, e.g. Afghanistan (42:26-45:37)
  • Hanging onto a positive vision of a radically different world, e.g. Iran (45:37-47:47)
  • Explaining social behaviour and social change beyond biology (47:47-50:01)
  • Angela's current and future projects (50:01-52:55)
  • Conclusion (52:55-58:43)

References:

Reviews of 'The Patriarchs':

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About the Podcast

Now and Men
Current conversations about men's lives
What's it like to be a man in the 21st century? How are feminist issues relevant to men and boys? How can we engage in productive conversations about gender equality? These questions are being discussed more than ever.

Our monthly podcast delves into these issues with experts such as practitioners, activists and academics. In each episode, you’ll hear in-depth conversations about a wide-range of topics connected to masculinity and the lives of men and boys, such as preventing gender-based violence, promoting active fatherhood, and supporting men's health.

The podcast is hosted by two social science researchers, based on the opposite sides of the world: Sandy Ruxton from Durham University's Centre for Research into Violence and Abuse (UK) and Dr Stephen Burrell from the University of Melbourne (Australia). If you would like to give us your feedback, suggest a guest, or have a question you'd like us to discuss, get in touch at nowandmen@gmail.com. And if you like what we do, please share us with your friends, and leave a review on Apple podcasts!

About your hosts

Stephen Burrell

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I am a Lecturer in Criminology at the University of Melbourne, Australia, where I moved from the UK at the beginning of 2024. My research is about men, masculinities and violence. I am particularly interested in the prevention of men's violence against women, building gender equality, addressing environmental harm, and promoting an ethic of care among men and boys. In my spare time I'm a big fan of drinking tea, being in nature, eating vegan ice cream, and listening to heavy metal music. I'm also a trustee for White Ribbon UK.

Sandy Ruxton

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Honorary Research Fellow in the Department of Sociology at Durham University (UK). Independent researcher, expert on men and masculinities. Previous policy work on human rights, children and families, poverty and social exclusion, and asylum and migration. Programme experience with boys and young men in schools, community, and prisons. Steering Committee member, MenEngage Europe. Volunteer for OX4 Food Crew. Chess-player, bike-rider, tree-hugger. Great grandfather edited Boy's Own Paper, but was sacked.