Hilario Sáez Méndez - 'We Are All Rubiales': How Should Men Respond to Spain's World Cup Victory?

The Spanish women’s football team have shaken the world – first with their incredible World Cup success, then by bringing into question the sexist culture of soccer, stating #SeAcabó ('It's Over') and striking en masse in protest about their treatment by the football authorities. This was after the President of the Spanish Football Federation, Luis Rubiales, was accused of kissing the striker Jenni Hermoso without her consent on live TV during the final's medal presentation ceremony. 

In this special extra episode, we speak to prominent Spanish pro-feminist activist Hilario Sáez Méndez about how men have responded to the #SeAcabó movement, and how we can understand these events in the context of wider debates about gender equality, masculinity and men's violence against women in football and Spanish society. Hilario highlights the emergence of a stronger feminist consciousness in recent years, including: 

• The #Cuéntalo ('tell it') movement after the horrific 2016 La Manada ('wolf pack') rape case in Pamplona: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/23/wolf-pack-case-spain-feminism-far-right-vox
• The women’s strike in 2018 denouncing sexual discrimination, domestic violence and the gender pay gap: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/spanish-women-give-up-work-for-a-day-in-first-feminist-strike
• The 'solo sí es sí' ('only yes means yes') law passed in 2022: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/25/spain-only-yes-means-yes-sexual-consent-bill-expected-to-become-law
• He questions whether the statement by Cadiz's men’s football team - "we are all Jenni" - should in fact be "we are all Rubiales", recognising men's responsibility to address our own sexist behaviour, and that of other men: https://apnews.com/article/sevilla-hermoso-rubiales-kiss-tshirts-73b711b6412c729ec1a320f0f21d60f9

Hilario is a sociologist, the President of the Fundación Iniciativa Social (Social Initiative Foundation), and an active member of Red de Hombres por la Igualdad (Men's Network for Equality) and MenEngage Iberia.

• Follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hilariosaez
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilario-sáez-12801928/
• Read the statement from MenEngage Iberia, expressing their revulsion at the behaviour of Luis Rubiales: https://menengage.org/stories/the-actions-of-the-spanish-football-president-are-unworthy-of-his-position-and-of-the-institution-and-the-sport-he-represents/
• MenEngage Iberia: https://twitter.com/MenEngageIberia
• MenEngage Alliance: https://menengage.org
• Fundación Iniciativa Social: https://fundacioniniciativasocial.es - @fis_tweet
• Red de Hombres por la Igualdad: https://redhombresigualdad.org
• Book by Sandy, Stephen et al., 'Men's Activism to End Violence Against Women Voices from Spain, Sweden and the UK' (2021): https://policy.bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/mens-activism-to-end-violence-against-women
• Footage from Rubiales's infamous speech: https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2023/aug/25/luis-rubiales-refuses-to-resign-spanish-fa-president-video
• Hilario played a leading role in the men's march in Sevilla against violence against women, which we covered in episode 6: https://now-and-men.captivate.fm/episode/seville-march
• Listeners may also be interested in episode 16 with Dr Stacey Pope on building gender equality in football, which was recorded in the run-up to Euro 2022, the Women’s European Championships: https://now-and-men.captivate.fm/episode/stacey-pope
• And episode 22 with Dan Guinness, which discusses masculine pressures within professional sport: https://now-and-men.captivate.fm/episode/beyond-equality

We cover the following topics in this episode: 

• The impact of the women’s team’s success on Spanish society (01:15 – 03:49)
• The actions of Luis Rubiales and why this led to major protests (03:49 – 07:48)
• How Rubiales’s conduct fits into a wider pattern by the Spanish football authorities (07:48 – 11:43)
• What these events in football tell us about masculinity, gender relations and the political context in Spain (11:43 – 15:01)
• Differences in women’s football, e.g. less homophobia (15:01 – 16:45)
• Why the kiss is part of a much bigger systemic problem (16:45 – 19:52)
• Why the #SeAcabó movement is different to #MeToo (19:52 – 26:37)
• How different groups of men have responded to #SeAcabó (26:37 – 30:57)
• How MenEngage Iberia have been responding to what has happened (30:57 – 34:27)
• What Rubiales’s speech shows us about men’s complicity (34:27 – 38:13)
• The significance of recent shifts in gender relations, such as Spain’s ‘only yes means yes law’ (38:13 – 43:36)
• How hopeful Hilario feels about possibilities for change (43:36 – 47:18)